The Path Less Travelled with Debbie
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In this episode of 'Bossing Up, Overcoming OCD,' Erin Davis discusses why success at work doesn't always translate to success in romantic relationships. She explains the puzzling disconnects high-achieving women often experience when they excel professionally but struggle with relationship insecurities. Erin uses the example of a high-powered CFO, Melissa, to illustrate how professional skills can be transferred to personal life. The episode covers how to identify confidence gaps and provides practical strategies to build relationship confidence. Erin also introduces her group coaching program, 'Obsessed: Love More,' designed to help professional women bridge this gap and achieve balance in their personal and professional lives.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:45 Understanding the Confidence Gap
02:53 Professional vs. Personal Confidence
04:28 Strategies for Bridging the Gap
06:48 Melissa's Transformation
08:27 Actionable Tips and Tools
11:53 Final Thoughts and Invitation
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Affiliate links may be included, supporting my content at no extra cost to you.
*This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
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Audio file
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Today I am thrilled to welcome a, a special guest to the Bossing Up Overcoming OCD show. She is. The podcast host of the high ticket woman, she's also a public speaker and just such a pleasure to talk with, um, Ms. Debbie Coddle. And she brings insightful conversations and challenges, relationship topics with both wisdom and practical guidance.
So I've known Debbie for a little while now, and I even guessed on her show I had the privilege of doing that and speaking to her audience. So. More than excited to have you all hear about Debbie's expertise and how she likes to challenge the common conventional beliefs around relationships, especially when it comes to our faith.
So Debbie, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me, Erin. This is a pleasure. It's [00:01:00] always exciting to guest on someone else's podcast for a change, I gotta say. Wonderful. Well, I, I do feel very honored to have you here and you know, the other thing I wanted to mention is you offer therapy.
Yeah. Plus you're a coach, you've got a course, you're doing the public speaking. Yeah. You're hosting your own podcast. You got a lot going on. I got a lot going on. Sometimes I am not sure when I find time to sleep, to be honest, but no, it's all good. Yes. You know, I it all, it all came together in, in pieces.
Right. You know, so I created my first course, then I wrote my book, then I created the second course, and then I added the podcast. So it's just sort of been layer on, layer on, layer on layer on layer. So, yeah. Yes. Well, I mean, you seem like a natural helper. And so the more ways you can try to reach someone to help them, it seems like that's what you're doing.
Yeah. I mean that, I think that's why most people get into [00:02:00] therapy, right? They, they wanna help people. So yeah, I think at the core of who I am, I just wanna be able to make a difference in people's lives to the best of my ability. So, yeah. Mm-hmm. That's, that's what why I do what I do. Yes. And what's the name of your book?
The book and the first course are actually, are named the same, the Path Less Traveled, and the subtitle of that is Living With Divine Intention in a Secular World. Wow. And I wrote it for women. It's written for women. Although I have gotten feedback from men who've written it who, who say to me, this is just as relevant to men.
But yeah, I did design it specifically for women. Okay. So you've had some men read it and they feel like it resonates. Uh, yeah. Well, my husband before we were married actually was my editor and he edited the content, and so he was the first man to tell me. But, you know, I felt like he was a little biased.
Uhhuh. And then I, and then I had, um, and then I had a minister in my [00:03:00] church actually. Just decide outta the blue to buy it and read it. And then, um, I had my coach out of the blue. I didn't know he was gonna do this. My business coach, um, actually I've had a couple male business coaches buy it and read it and they both loved it.
So, yeah. I've, I. There's something in there for men too. And you know that book was born out of my own, like it tells a little bit of my own journey, my own story through my first marriage and my divorce. Because you know, I'm trying to speak to women who are at a very specific point in their lives where.
Life hasn't turned out the way they wanted it to. And that, that's why I called it the pathless travel. Yeah. It's all about this metaphor of coming to this crossroads in your life and you can continue down the same familiar path, right, of making the same choices or living up the consequences of the choices of the people you surround yourself with.
Mm-hmm. And that's a very [00:04:00] familiar path. I don't like the. The term comfort zone because it's not always a comfortable path that we're on. Oh, good point. Yeah. But it's familiar, so it's painful. It, you know, we keep suffering, you know, the mistakes that we make and the mistakes of others, but that suffering is something that we've lived out enough.
Then that familiarity can make it really hard to get off of that path. Yeah, so essentially you help women who find themselves maybe in a broken relationship or they're in a place in their life where they didn't expect to be. Yeah. Which I honestly think is most women in one degree or another. And it doesn't have to be a broken, like, you know, divorce, you know, a broken relationship in that way.
But Okay. I think, I think women get to be 30 something that seems to sort of be like the magical number 30 something. And they, they just sort of wake up to this reality that [00:05:00] life hasn't turned out in every single way the way they dreamt it would. Mm-hmm. When they were little girls going into teenagehood, going into young adulthood.
And there might be a lot of reasons for that. Maybe it's their marriage, maybe it's a satisfaction with life in general. Maybe they. You know, or raising young children and, and they gave up a career for that or, you know, whatever it is. There's that sort of, that discontent that begins to sort of, you know, that seed is planted and it's watered and fertilized over time and, and then it sort of blossoms into resentment and that resentment spills over and it begins to impact these relationships.
Our relationship with ourselves, our relationship with God, our relationship with our, our husband, and so on and so forth. And so I'm speaking to that woman. I'm speaking to that woman who recognizes that she feels that way. She may not know what to do about [00:06:00] it right now, but she is at that crossroads because once she has that awareness, yes, she can take a different path.
Yes. Okay. And so part of your support is helping her find that new path. Absolutely. Yeah. And, and it's all about taking personal responsibility for the life that you want to have. Mm-hmm. I didn't even know I was getting divorced at the time that I created this course, but my first husband and I were actually, um, on a church sponsored project in the Middle East.
We were in Jordan, and that is where we separated, but I. I was writing that course while I was in Jordan. I had reached out to a number of women who had had worked with me prior to us leaving, told them I was doing this pilot program, do you want to, you wanna jump into this? I'll just charge you like a hundred bucks each to, you know, come along with me.
Mm-hmm. But just know that I'm writing it as we go. And they said, yeah. So I had like 6, 7, 8 women do this. [00:07:00] Nice. And each month I would come up with a new chapter and, and this was all, it was all just written at the time, right? It's morphed now into video and it's all online and it has a very different look and feel to it now.
But at the time it was just, you know, my sort of rough draft and I had no idea that, because when I had come to that crossroads moment myself about. Three years earlier when my marriage was really, really struggling and I started to have panic attacks. I talk about this in the book out of the blue. I mean, I had worked with people for years who had panic attacks, but I had never experienced one myself, and all of a sudden I'm starting to experience these panic attacks.
And I just started having a problem with my back and I, I had to really cut back on the number of clients I was seeing. It was really a, a stressful time. Yeah. It was really impacting you. It was really impacting me, and I came to a point where I realized you have to stop blaming your [00:08:00] circumstances, Debbie.
You know, you gotta start practicing what you preach and you're gonna start taking responsibility for what's. Going on and why you're so unhappy. So I started making very intentional choices in my life, and it's out of that, that the course basically got written, um, and I had no idea that I was setting something in motion that was gonna ultimately lead to the demise of my marriage.
But, you know, there are lots of reasons for that. But that's what originally led to the creation of the course, and then ultimately the book. And then the second course is specifically speaking to divorced women. I could actually see my own. Path and journey of healing. Yes. Through the things that I've created, so yeah.
Right. I know it seems like so often whenever we're creating offers, it's for that version of us, five to 10 years ago. It is so true. It's so true. Yes. Well, because I feel like everything, I always wanna pay it forward, and I think therapists in general are like this, but I wish everybody was like [00:09:00] this. If you go through something difficult and you've learned something valuable from it, use it to help other people.
When. When you're ready. Yeah. Yes. And that's the value of coaching, uh, like therapy, yes. You can make a lot of progress, uh, there, but with coaching, there's just a lot more opportunity as far as reaching people. Yeah. But on top of that, what I was gonna share is like with coaching, you're able to speak from your experience more so, because as therapists, you can't.
It's kind of frowned upon to self disclose. Yeah. But with the coaching, you've been there and like, you know what it's like and you can connect on a different level. Yes. And you know, I don't, I don't know that your listeners know the difference between therapy and coaching, but you know, you and I are both licensed therapists, which I think gives us a whole lot more credibility.
Yes. As coaches, but yeah, therapy comes from this medical [00:10:00] model and you know, like your disease, you have a mental health disorder and it's you that's very much insurance driven. What I love about coaching is that coaching is very present and future oriented. It's really about showing up now and going, what do I wanna change now?
But the therapist to me knows how to. Understand how the past has affected you, and we might have to incorporate some of that into what we do. Mm-hmm. So I really feel like it take, I, I get to take the best of both worlds having, having the therapist background, but having the coaching approach. Yeah. Yes.
And the other beautiful thing that I appreciate about coaching, and maybe you feel the same way, is that you can help someone. Fast track their results. Yes, because like without a coach, I mean, you can stay stuck for a very long time, but because you don't see your blind spots, and I, I also noticed this in the gym, like if the main [00:11:00] trainer is not there, I.
We don't push as hard. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's true. We get in those ruts. Yes. Which is what, you know, when I talk about the familiar path, there's so many ruts on that path that we've gotten ourselves into or we've been pushed into and we don't know how to climb out of. But change is scary. I mean, over and over and over.
When I work with people, I see this, this fear of. You know, taking that new path. 'cause there's a bend. There's a bend in that path. We don't know what's coming. The familiar path. It's like the straight path ahead of us. We're like, okay, I don't like this path, but at least I know it, right? Whereas this one over here, that promises a better life.
It promises more contentment. It requires so much effort on my part to, to step onto it and to stay onto it. So yeah, there's a a lot of fear I think. That drives people to stay on this familiar path. So whether you're in the gym and you're like, oh, the trainer's gonna push [00:12:00] me beyond ways that I think I can handle, or the mental health trainer, which is what we are.
Yes. The mental health trainer's gonna challenge me to, you know, grow, think about things, and do things and grow. Yeah. But it's gonna stretch me and it's gonna, it's gonna be a little painful. Yeah. That that is how we grow. Yes. Yeah. But we're typically very happy with the results once we've gotten through that growth phase or that period of discomfort.
Yeah. Yeah. You know? Well, and that's key, what you just said right there, right? You, you have to go in when you decide to live. A truly intentional life, you have to understand that you are gonna go through a transition phase. And so I use the metaphor, my book of a bridge, you're, you're crossing a bridge from one path to the next path.
And that bridge is that, that state of transition, because you are going to set some things into motion that you can't, um, predict the outcome of. You don't know how the people around you are gonna respond to your changes. [00:13:00] Um, they might resist those changes, right? They might resent those changes. They might like the old you that, you know, was willing to people please and, and say yes to everything, and say yes to everything and no boundaries and mm-hmm are really permeable boundaries.
And, and now here you are stepping up and taking responsibility for yourself and saying, you know, gently, lovingly, but. Saying No, you're going to get a little resistance from somebody, so, yes. Right. Well, in one of your recent podcast episodes, I believe it was number 64, you were talking about the culture of convenience.
Yeah. Which is so interesting. Um, how do you think our culture of convenience kind of. Impacts these women that you work with. You know, the ones that wake up one day and realize that their life hasn't turned out the way they wanted. Yeah. Well, we want everything easy, right? And our brain doesn't have to wanna work any [00:14:00] harder than it has to.
So, yeah. You know, it's, it's always looking for patterns of behavior and that serves us well with patterns that are good, you know? But we have lots of patterns, habits that don't serve us well. And that can be challenging to break even when you are trying to be intentional, that it can be, you know, like if you have a problem with snacking, it can be really hard to break that, that habit, even though you know you're not hungry.
So we defer to what is easy and convenient. We defer to that path of least resistance. So. When I talk on my podcast about marriage, about what's committed versus convenient, we we're looking all the time for what's easy, you know? Yeah. And in my most recent one, which is one you're referring to, I'm talking about why marriage, why yes, why, you know, marriage for some people seems to be this obsolete institution, but is [00:15:00] it really, you know, and, and what does the research actually say?
And. It might be convenient to move in with somebody to try that out for size, but in reality, you're leading yourself. Into a relationship that is going to be just as devastating if it ends. I mean, wow. Nobody ever shows up. Good point in this space with you or I, and says, yeah, you know, we lived together for four years, but now we decided it's over and it's okay.
It's fine. You know, it was no big deal. No, they're devastated. Yes, they are. And I've worked with those women too, who were engaged. Yeah, they're devastated. Living together. And you know, after that amount of time, you are entwined emotionally, you're entwined financially. If there are children involved, that adds a whole other layer to it.
Oh my, oh my goodness, Debbie. But pets. That that's yes. You know, I mean, we could speak to the right, so what are you trying on for size and how convenient is it to move into with [00:16:00] somebody and see if it's gonna work out, as opposed to making the commitment and the covenant before God and each other, and family and friends that says, no matter what, we are going to make this work.
There's no back door. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Wow. So fascinating. I never thought about it like that. You know, when you live with someone, you're stepping into the same arena of potential pain. I. Absolutely you are. It's, it's a myth to think that somehow you are not gonna get hurt because you're trying something on for size, because emotions are very much involved in that.
And, you know, we're stepping away from the main topic a little bit here when I say this, but, you know, we, we say, well, I, I wanna make sure we're compatible. Right. You know, that's one of the reasons why we, we, oh yeah, we say that, but think about what you're really saying. Okay, I, I wanna make sure that we're compatible in how we live, and I wanna make sure we're sexually compatible and all [00:17:00] these things.
Well, why not just hand over all the money in your bank account to this person that you don't know very well and say, I want you to go out and use this money to buy whatever you want. I'm gonna see how you spend that money so that you know, I can determine if we are financially compatible. Oh. How come nobody does that?
Oh, they hold onto their money tight. Right. Okay. So if we're going to learn how to be compatible with each other, that takes time. That is a process of spending lots of time together and seeing each other in lots of situations, but we don't hand over our heart. Or our body. We don't move in with somebody all to determine whether there's compatibility.
We move in when the compatibility has been established. Yes. Wow. I mean, and the commitment has been made. Yeah. Such, such an [00:18:00] interesting metaphor. 'cause yeah, all of us will hold onto that money tight, you know? But then. Our time or you know, even our furniture, our time and Yeah. All of that here, use it. Use it.
Yeah. And, and the biggest thing that we give away, of course, is ourselves, our bodies. Yes. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yes. On, on the, on the tiniest thread of connection. Yes. Well, and so you've already spoken to this, uh, already in some of. You're sharing, but like you use your faith as an anchor for your work. Do you ever encounter a woman who doesn't have faith or like a religious background or any kind of relationship with God?
I do. Sure. And, and I don't, I'm not limited to people who are people of faith, but my value system doesn't change with. With the people that I work with. So when I talk with a woman, for example, if I have a woman [00:19:00] who is looking to be in a committed. Long-term relationship, AKA marriage, but she has a succession of men coming in and out of her life.
Yeah. I challenge her to think about what she really wants and, and how, whether or not what she's doing is really leading her to what she wants. And I talk about the damage that happens. For example, with casually giving yourself away, and I don't just mean sexually. I, I do mean time, energy, and even money.
I've worked with plenty of women who are way too free with their money early on with, with a man. They let them move in rent free or you know, they help them pay things off. I mean, it's crazy, the things that I've heard, but we're way too free with ourselves. So I talk with her about like, you know, what has that actually led to, and what would it be like for you to raise the expectation of [00:20:00] how a man treats you?
Because the very lowest expectation now that a man has from a woman is that she'll sleep with him. He doesn't have to work at all for that these days. It, it, it didn't used to be that way. It used to be that a man had to show a woman that he cherished her, for her to give him the time of day, but now a man doesn't even need to take you out for dinner, for, you know, sex to occur.
And so the most important thing that you have to offer yourself is, is given away, you know, after what. A couple drinks or more at a bar and you know, hey, we're off. We're off. You know, whatever. And what does that lead to? And what's the emotional damage that happens? You, yeah. So I can say all of that without ever having to talk about God.
I. Yet the premise is still there. The foundational core concepts are still there. Yeah. And what do you think has changed Debbie in [00:21:00] for women? Like what is it about maybe the women who are out there dating today who you know they are more freely giving their time, energy efforts into men than before?
Well, I mean, if we just get really blunt and say, you know, they're giving their bodies away, what's happening is that women are still wanting the emotional connection, right? I mean, yes, you, you can go out on and watch Facebook reels or TikTok reels and they, they make jokes about this, right? The man is just.
It's a hookup. The woman is still waiting for the guy to call. The woman is still waiting for there to be a heart connection. And while society tells us that women can separate themselves emotionally from sex. It's really not true. A woman who is able to do that has been very damaged by men, maybe even from childhood.
I mean, that is an indication, as you well know, a woman is able to do that, is quite emotionally damaged. Most [00:22:00] women are looking to connect with a man and they're using sex as the way. To get that connection. It means so when they are used and discarded by multiple men, I mean, you can see the anger that women have for men.
You can see that, and yet somehow that hasn't translated over to I need to expect more from myself and therefore I need to expect more from men. Yeah. Instead, what I hear is fear. I hear women going. A man isn't even gonna look twice at me if I'm not willing to sleep with him, but that is not true. No. The women that I have worked with who I have encouraged to actually withhold sex and, and put that in as a boundary, have been shocked to see that, that that is attracting the right kind of man.
Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well, you know, now that you're speaking to this, it kind of seems like, you know, you were talking about the bridge earlier. Mm-hmm. I [00:23:00] wonder if these women feel like that having sex is the bridge to emotional connection, but it's actually in reverse. You know, like you really gotta have the boundaries for yourself in order to create that emotional connection on so much of a.
Deeper level. Yes. And that commitment too. Yeah. Someone once told me that their motto that they live by is, am I treating myself like a treasure or a target? And I thought that was a really like profound thing to say. This was many, many years ago. Because women don't treat themselves as a treasure anymore.
They don't, they've, they've cheapened their own worth so much that they are willing to freely give away the thing. You know, since the dawn of time, the thing that men have craved from women initially is their sexuality. And we're just handing it out like it's worth nothing. Yeah. And you can't shortcut love.
You cannot. No. No. So when a, when a woman learns to value herself [00:24:00] more, when she raises her own sense of self-worth and she sees herself through God's eyes, whether or not she realizes that that's what she's doing, mm-hmm. Then, then she raises the standard of what she allows in her life. She doesn't put up with or tolerate men who are wanting to cheapen her.
Yes. Who, who are, who just see her as a, you know, a sexual target that they're aiming for. Right. And as you were saying earlier, like you're coaching them to think about what do you really want? And then it sounds like you're kind of changing her mindset and beliefs not only about herself, but like, how can we get you what you want without sacrificing.
Your body. Absolutely. You know, I have them. Imagine putting that off the table. Just taking it off the table and what, mm-hmm. What would change in your relationship. And of course, you know, some of them are like terrified that they're gonna be alone for the rest of their lives if they do that. [00:25:00] Yes. And okay.
Some of those men may go away, but all that's really told us is they were the wrong men. They were never gonna commit in the first place. Right, exactly. You know what's shocking to me here is the most shocking thing. Men are very direct about what they want. Man after man, after man will tell a woman, I'm not looking for anything serious.
I'm just looking for casual. And she will still think that she is going to be the exception to the rule. Yes. I mean, he is right there on the table. He is told her straight up. This is all, there's your evidence. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, Debbie, it's been such a pleasure chatting with you. I think this was very insightful and enlightening.
Where can the audience find you? Sure they can, uh, go to my website, which is just debbie coddle.com, and it's C-A-U-D-L-E is how you spell [00:26:00] coddle. So yeah. Okay. And you've got the High Ticket Woman podcast and Yeah, it's on all major listing. It's platforms. Yeah. iTunes, Spotify, and all the obscure ones too.
Don't even ask me to name them. 'cause I think those are the only two that really matter, but, but yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, yeah. And all of that's on the website. The book Access to the book Access. Well, the courses are not, but if you're interested in the courses, you can just send me a message to the website.
We have them sort of as hidden pages, you know, within the website so that I don't want people getting super distracted when they go to the website, so, but yeah, the podcast is there. The book is there and how to reach me is there for sure. Okay, awesome. Well, thank you so much again, Debbie. You are welcome, Erin.
Thanks for having me. This was fun.
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âś… Break free from the mental spiral so you can fully embrace the love you deserve. Download my 10 Tips for ROCD Checklist here.
✨ Feel deeply connected to your partner without overthinking every interaction. Join my Obsess Less, Love More program to create confidence in your relationship.
💫 Content is proudly sponsored by Thrizer. Sign up with this link or use code “Erin” to have your 3% credit card fees waived for the first $2,500 in charges!
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